You sure don't have to worry about feeling like the only moron, around here.
Just read.
During the past three years, I've gotten to learn quite a bit about EDC (especially about the often-overlooked, endlessly-useful flashlight; my drug of choice, in EDC goodies. Knives come in a distant second). Most of these bits of information are things I'd never have learned, had it not been for forums like these, where there was always someone, who would patiently, gladly, and (sometimes) thoroughly answer every one of my seemingly hundreds of questions; and if they didn't know, they'd point me towards someone who did. That helped me, big-time.
To me, that's what these forums are all about. That, and being around others who have similar mindsets about EDC, and don't think it's a completely freakish thing, to be prepared with basic tools that make life easier, from day to day - without having to hunt around for a tool box, or in the kitchen drawer.
Last Edit: Aug 5, 2015 15:12:07 GMT -8 by david57strat
Post by david57strat on Aug 5, 2015 13:47:23 GMT -8
Now that I'm in comparative nostalgic mode, I thought I'd start a thread comparing one example of a flashlight using yesterday's technology, with one of today's. Note that, in this instance I've chosen to use an extremely warm-tinted drop-in, to closely approximate the color temperature of an incandescent bulb. THE LED has many of the advantages of the incandescent, with almost none of the weaknesses. I've used this LED tint for two reasons. 1) Some people can't stand cool white color temperatures that most LED flashlights produce, and they swear by their old incandescent lights, believing that they have no choice, other than their old tried-and-true incandescent or some funky blueish, greenish, or purpleish LED lights. A few years ago, that may have been true, but no more. They just will not part with them, mainly for this reason. 2) I wanted to show that it is entirely possible to get a huge range of tints (from super warm, to super cool) out of your P60 light, depending on which LED you choose. Want something warm, neutral.cool...something in between? It's out there. You just have to choose the right one for the application, and you're home free
On the left - an old Garrity plastic flashlight, with a rubberized grip, running on two alkaline D cells, "upgraded" () with an incandescent bulb I stole out of the tailcap (it was the backup bulb) of my old 2D Maglite. It had never been used, until I installed in this old Garrity). Believe it or not, that Maglite bulb was way better than the stock bulb that had been installed in the Garrity, which died. The light weighed in at 20 ounces, with 2 D batteries, installed.
On the right - a shortened version of one of my Solarforce L2M hosts, with a few upgrades (L2T head with B6 stainless bezel, recessed tail cap switch, with an International Outdoors XP-L U5 7A3 3-mode drop-in, running on a single 16340 battery. This light weighed in at about 4 ounces, with the 16340 battery, installed. This is a fully modular host/light. You can use it in its shortened version, with one CR123 or 16340 battery, or use the extender (which is how I usually use it), and use a single 18650 battery in it (as long as the drop-in supports the voltage). Fortunately, this one does.
The old Garrity has no waterproofing, of any kind on the threads (no o-rings, no nothing). All the threads are plastic. I'd be willing to bet that if that light were dropped on its head, the plastic lens would crack, and the bulb would most certainly break, rendering the light completely useless. The light on the right is completely o-ring sealed, is fully waterproof to IP-X8 standards (2 meters, 30 minutes), and the glass lens will allow the highest lumen transfer out of the light, while the stainless bezel protects it from cracking, in the event of a drop. I'm not saying it's shatter-proof - but it's highly resistant.
Every part on this light can be replaced, easily and inexpensively, if need be.
The old Garrity is a direct drive light. It will start dimming, within just minutes after you turn it on. The electronics on the Solarforce's are regulated to maintain constant output (within a certain voltage range), until the voltage drops to a certain level, at which point, it will run, on direct drive, just like the incandescent - and fade slowly, until it reaches its lower voltage threshold (I think it's 2.7 volts); but you get used to your lights and what they can do, and a battery change usually happens long before you reach anywhere close to that point.
In spite of the huge reflector, the Garrity was only able to produce this alien-like, super-narrow beam (it's all spot...no spill, whatsoever. I had to actually light up the Garrity with the Solarforce, set to its lowest level, so you could even see the Garrity, in the picture . Had it not been for that, all you would see is that little tiny spot on the wall. Terrible quality light. Pretty much useless (not much better than an actual lit candle). Sad.
Camera settings here, are ISO 80, 1/2 second exposure, at F5.6, daylight white balance, and neutral colors
Same exact settings. The International Outdoors drop-in has very large hot spot, and an equally generous spill beam - particularly well-suited for distance spotting, but offering up nice peripheral vision, as well - a great combination (no tunnel vision) - especially outdoors.
Its tint looks so much like an incandescent, a lot of people confuse it for one, when they see it. This beam has a great combination of spot and spill, so you kind of get the best of both worlds. I usually choose a smooth reflector (over an orange peel), when I purchase drop-ins, for better throw, even though the beam may not look as pretty.
The distance from the doorway to the desk was probably not even 12 feet away.
Camera settings - ISO 80, F3.5, 1 second exposure, same white balance and color settings as before
..and here, with the Solarforce light.
Try this with your old Maglite. It ain't gonna happen :|
Alkaline (or lithium disposables/primaries) vs. Lithium Ion Technology Once you fully deplete an alkaline (or any other primary) battery, you're done. Game over. You have to replace the battery. Once you break a bulb, it has to be replaced. Lithium ion batteries can be re-charged hundreds of times, and pay for themselves, during heavy usage. They have no memory effect, like old NiCads (they can be just topped off, periodically, and still maintain a full duty cycle, in between charges. LEDs last tens of thousands of hours, are more efficient, and very rarely fail, and as is the case with a P60 host, you can choose any tint you want. I happened to choose a very warm tint, here, but have plenty of varying tints, all the way to retina-searing super bright white :P
Are you beginning to realize the amazing flexibility of the P60 host? That's why I'm so hooked on these things.
This is all with a little tiny light measuring in at about four inches long. Imagine the output of a larger, heavier light, with today's technology.
I didn't use a key chain (or other super compact) light, because the P60 lights are the only ones I have, with a very wide range of tints from which to choose, and that I actually have, at my disposal.
I hope this sheds some light (no pun intended) on some of the basic differences between the older incandescent lights, and LED lights of today. It's a good time to be a flashaholic. Choices are nearly limitless, limited only by your imagination and your pocketbook.
Thanks for viewing my post. As always, your comments and/or questions are always most welcome :-)
Last Edit: Sept 15, 2015 12:35:28 GMT -8 by david57strat
I'm really surprised not to see a lot more responses to this thread. The P60 format is almost everything a flashaholic could want in a compact lighting system, and at surprisingly reasonable price, with almost limit-less choices in customization.
I think a lot of us are light noobs. I have a klarus, an Olight, and a Sunwayman M11R. I don't know from P60s
P60 is just a size designation. It's a very specific size of drop-in that's supposed to universally fit any host that's designed for one.
What's A Host?
A host is that part of your modular light that's everything, minus the drop-in. It'll look like an abandoned flashlight body. All it's missing is a battery, and a drop-in, then you have a full flashlight.
Collectors and light enthusiasts (or just people on a budget who want to try out a different kind of light, want something of decent to excellent quality, but don't want to be bothered with the expense of an entirely new light) buy and install these drop-ins in just seconds. They can mix and match them, all the time. When the technology advances, they put a newer module (drop-in) in, with the latest LED. You're never out-of-date, with a P60 module. Your choices are almost limitless. As with everything, you get what you pay for, and there are plenty of crappy modules out there, so be careful in choosing.
It's fun, but it saves you a TON of money, if you're on the fence about a kind of tint, user interface, beam, or whatever you want to experiment with - and you don't have to give up your first born, just to buy a decent one.
If you hate the drop-pin you installed, you can always replace it with another one, without having to take out a second mortgage - and you can sell the one that didn't work out for you on CPF MarketPlace, here, or other forums. There are plenty of forums where people know and appreciate quality lighting tools, and will be more likely to pay you closer to what the drop-in was worth, so you're not completely out. You may take a bit of a loss, but nothing like you would, if you were trying to turn it around on Craigslist, or a garage sale.
People tend to know their lights, here, and all the more so, on CPF. Someone is bound to want what you don't.
They call this practice "catch and release" Enthusiasts do this all the time, and save a ton of money, but still manage to buy nice equipment, in the process. Sometimes the items are brand new, but just weren't what they were looking for, so they turn them around quickly, and buy what they really want. Works great for everyone.
Last Edit: Oct 30, 2016 19:21:37 GMT -8 by david57strat
Post by david57strat on Aug 3, 2015 21:28:57 GMT -8
A lot of light enthusiasts buy this type of host, because of its great affordability and modular flexibility (with so many P60 drop-ins available for them.
A small assortment of Sportac drop-ins. Solid brass construction. Really nice quality.
Here's my nicest drop-in - a Malkoff M361. It's a 3-mode XP-G2 R5. Absolutely bullet proof construction and dependability. A little on the expensive side (comparatively speaking), but worth every penny. I was fortunate enough to pick this one up, used, on CPF MarketPlace, a while back. It's installed in one of my L2T hosts. It's shown here, next to a Solarforce L2T head, with the B6 stainless bezel. As you can tell, I love these bezels
Here is that Mountain Electronics drop-in (on the left, mounted in that exploded view - first picture). Decent construction, with good quality components, and speedy delivery. To the right, my Malkoff M361. Solid brass construction - completely sealed/fully-potted. The inner spring looks a little bit mangled, because I stretched it with a pair of needle nose pliers, to make it fit an older Pelican 2320 host.
Last Edit: Aug 3, 2015 21:38:04 GMT -8 by david57strat
Post by david57strat on Aug 3, 2015 21:16:41 GMT -8
This is a Solarforce L2, with a gunmetal steel finish, broken down into three pieces (head, body, switch. The new Mountain Electronics drop-in is seen above, between the head, and the body. If that module disappeared from the picture, and you put the other three pieces together, you'd have just the host.
Host + Drop-In = Flashlight
Last Edit: Aug 29, 2015 12:50:11 GMT -8 by david57strat
Post by david57strat on Aug 3, 2015 21:11:36 GMT -8
The stainless bezel (on a P60 light) is my absolute favorite. It dresses up the light, but you also get the added (drop) protection to the glass. Here's an older picture, taken before I went hog wild with my Solarforce hosts:
The B6 stainless bezel continues to be a default add-on to most of my Solarforce hosts
Last Edit: Aug 3, 2015 21:44:32 GMT -8 by david57strat
Post by david57strat on Aug 3, 2015 21:00:18 GMT -8
I'm really surprised not to see a lot more responses to this thread. The P60 format is almost everything a flashaholic could want in a compact lighting system, and at surprisingly reasonable price, with almost limit-less choices in customization.
I don't know about expertI visit places like Candle Power Forums, and I often feel like a complete moron, when it comes to the more technical aspects of the flashlight; seeing people in there who know how to build their own custom lights, from scratch (with custom user interfaces, component by component, and these aren't just on/off interfaces, either). Those are the experts . They know all the math, and all of the finer points in interface design and implementation.
I just scratch my head, thinking, 'huhh...whaaaat', but it makes perfect sense, to them.
I am slowly learning, though
Last Edit: Aug 3, 2015 15:57:57 GMT -8 by david57strat
I'll +1 on "Simple User Interface" as a top priority. I'm also trying to keep the same class of UI for what I carry and what I have for "the house", so my 4 year old can operate it as well. Twisty UI just doesn't work for me for what I need. And I have now discovered that a mode switch that is essentially flush with the body of the light isn't very convenient to find and operate in the dark/night.
Something that either has memory, so I can have it start out low, or that always starts out low. 600 lumens of eye-melting skull penetration right off the bat is not as useful to me.
The moment I read "eye-melting skull penetration", I was laughing, big-time. As a general rule, no matter what light I'm using, if it's the middle of the night, I'll cup the head of the light in my hand, before turning it on, so I don't get any unpleasant surprises. If I have to adjust the output (up, or down), I do it, then. Treat your light like a weapon (never point it at yourself, or anyone else you don't intend to hurt , and you should be okay). Oddly, I don't own a firearm, but I've read that in countless other forums - and it seems to apply nicely, to flashlights (of which I own many, with varying user interfaces, and in varying tints).
Important things to me (in no particular order) are:
LED emitter. I can't think of a single reason to ever buy an incandescent light. They burn out or break, far too easily, and offer very poor performance, compared to today's nicer LED lights. Several years ago, it could be argued that the incandescent light produced a far more pleasant, warmer tint; but many of today's lights are available with so many different tint options (particularly if you're buying a P60 modular light), you can get literally just about any tint you would ever want, with all of the advantages of the incandescent, but none of the weaknesses.
Lithium Ion Battery Compatibility. I prefer a light that runs on the 18650 (or other high-performance lithium ion) battery. Over half of my lights run on this battery. This battery (The 18650, in particular) packs the most punch, for its size, and can be charged hundreds of times. It can easily support a high-powered light (600 plus OTF lumens), without voltage sag. I prefer to have extra power, whenever it may be needed, and smaller batteries are not able to deliver, performance-wise. Since I hugely took part in the Maglite phase (my first "serious" (chuckling) light, I grew accustomed to carrying a heavier light. We've come such a long way, since then, so my needs have changed pretty radically. Now, you can simply dial down the output on a multi-mode light, and have a nice lower-powered light, in that very same housing!
Regulated Output. I refuse to buy a direct drive light (A light that starts dimming, from the moment the voltage drops - pretty much every light in existence, ten or more years ago. I cannot stand that. That is an archaic design. I want that light to maintain its output, without dimming, for a good long while, within reason. A reputable high-powered light will maintain a certain output, before dropping to a lower output, to protect the electronics from overheating. I'm okay with that. After it falls out of regulation, then it can start behaving like an old-school direct drive light; but by that time, I'll already have swapped out the battery .
Glass lens. No more crappy plastic lenses for me. Why would a company even make a light like this any more? Glass offers more scratch resistance, better light transmittance. With a decent bezel, they're well-protected against breakage, when dropped. Are they completely shatter-proof? No, but I have never had a glass lens break on me, even when (occasionally) dropped on its head.
Waterproof to IP-X8 standards, at a bare minimum. I do not like "water-resistant" lights. I own very few of them (7 out of my 70 lights, thus far - and most of them are older Maglites (originally incandescent), the majority of which have been LED upgraded)). In this day and age, it's entirely possible to get a nicely water-proofed light that has a fantastic combination of both, spot and spill, so you don't have to focus the light to get a great beam. You can have the best of both worlds. That's one of the biggest weakness of the focusing light, and I think it's a fatal flaw in a flashlight - an old design. If I want a dedicated flood light, or a dedicated thrower, I'll use one; but then, I am a flashlight junky, and I believe flashlights are tools; with each and every tool being task-specific; which is why I carry so many lights.
Dependable Interface. A light that I have to shake, bang against my palm, turn off and on again, just to make it work, is not a light worth having, in my book. I don't care how inexpensive the light is. It should just work. Period. A light should always come on, when you need it, and it should work dependably. Mode memory (always comes back on where you left it) is great, but not a deal-breaker, if not available, in that particular light. As long as if fits all the other criteria, I'm okay with it.
Tail Stand Capability. There's a real mixed crowd, when it comes to this feature. I admit, activating the light is easier, when the tail cap button sticks out; but it's also easier to accidentally turn the light on. I often use lights, to bounce light from the ceiling (They call that tail-standing). It's extremely useful, in many instances, rather than having to prop up a light, to do the same thing.
Forward Clicky (for momentary) Tail Switch. As long as at least one or two of my EDC lights has this feature, I'm fine. I'm not a fan of reverse clicky lights, for the most part.
Multi-light carry is not for everyone - especially for the minimalists. I am, most definitely NOT a minimalist. If you're happy carrying one light, I'm happy for you. More power to you. I need more than one light, and I don't mind the extra weight. It's not a big deal, but gives me far more options than carrying just one light.
I've heard some of the disparaging remarks all from all sorts of people, during these past three years, since Ive gotten way into the EDC thing - especially where lights are concerned.
"Squirrel Pockets", "McGuyver", "Batman", "Mr. Fix-It", "Inspector Gadget", "Light Man", .....whatever. It no longer bothers me. I have what I need when I need it. I am never without light. I laugh out loud when someone in my family (and who knows that I'm a self-professed flashaholic) asks me, "Do you have a flashlight handy?". My response is usually, "Just one?"
(That's how I justify my flashlight addiction. Works for me :P)
Things that are very low priority for me, in a new light purchase (for the most part) are:
pocket clip (I almost never use them. I hate them. I prefer holster carrying a light, whenever possible. It's not possible, at work, so I resort to the dreaded pocket clip, carried inside a pocket.
super compact form factor (I'm too used to larger lights, to care if any light I carry is super compact.
sub-lumen output (nice to have, but I have plenty of lights that can do that, and I EDC two of them. It' not a must-have, for me, in a new light)
beacon/strobe/s.o.s. - again, nice feature(s), but not really necessary. I always have at lease one light, on-person, that will do all of those things. If a new light has those features, fine. If not, it's not the end of the world.
Last Edit: Aug 24, 2015 18:52:13 GMT -8 by david57strat
Now, I've got a bunch of L91s (Energizer Ultimate Lithium AA) knocking around and figured that I could throw another light into my rotation. I did some research and found the L3 Illuminations L10 Nichia 219 for around $35 shipped.
I'd like to explore some alternatives that are similar in specs and similar in price.
Some others I looked at were: Eagletac D25A Mini OR Clicky - A bit pricier and has a whole lot of modes I won't need New Fenix E12 - Looks pretty promising Thrunite T10 - Can be had for ~$22
Any thought, opinions, suggestions, etc?
Chiming in, pretty late here, but...
I've heard good things about these L3 lights - and the Nichia 219 is a wonderful tint. Everyone should own at least one Nichia 219 light.
As for anyone convincing you not to buy something - let's face it, brother: you're in a forum full of flashaholics. It ain't gonna happen, my friend.
Buy it (if you haven't already); try it. The price of admission is small.
Post by david57strat on Aug 3, 2015 13:49:40 GMT -8
I know this is an older thread, but I'm going to post anyway, since I own a few of the T10 lights (original cool white twisty version, and 2014 edition - combination clicky/twisty version - in neutral), and since someone may have a question about it, today. The T10 is still a relevant light, and a true bargain for what you're getting. I own five Thrunite lights, and have been very pleased with all of them.
The T10 lights come with a diffuser, a screw-mountable pocket clip, the usual extra o-ring, and a spare switch, all in a nice little metal presentation box.
My 2014 edition is the neutral version, which is beautiful. I'm running this one and the original twisty cool white version on a 14500 battery, with great results (gotta watch for heat on this one, because of the higher voltage, but the output is amazing!
Firefly mode runs seemingly forever (for those of you interested in sub-lumen output, and preserving your adapted night vision)
I can post beam shots, comparing the two, if anyone is interested. :-)
Last Edit: Aug 3, 2015 13:50:49 GMT -8 by david57strat